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#41 .G2.

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

Here is what I don't agree with in regards to the NCAA.

After looking at this whole situation closely, I've realized it's not the NCAAs fault this happened, but had to come down on the entire university because of the actions swept under the rug in the late 80's. So in essence Penn St. cheated and continued on. Had theybeen caught, they would have been punished then.
I feel for the victums because they are being overshadowed.

Now, here's the problem I have. All these other schools looking to pluck Penn St. players. Like Lane Kiffin talking to the RB. 2010 wasn't that long ago. It just sucks to me. It seem unfair and too easy for other schools to grab the top level Penn St. players.
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#42 boutteman

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:42 AM

Well G2, in reality it's always up to the player. If the player isn't open to being recruited then it doesn't happen... if there's questions within the players mind, then he might want to explore it (his choice to accept the calls)... in the case below, you are talking about a player that wanted out over a year ago & JoePa wouldn't allow it. So now with the circumstances at hand this kid has connected with another head coach with very close ties to the state where he was born:
http://espn.go.com/c...sits-lsu-tigers


#43 boutteman

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:58 PM

First one gone:
http://espn.go.com/c...e-nittany-lions

#44 .G2.

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:00 PM

Yeah, and that's perfectly fine. It just makes me wonder being a school that had issues following the rules in the first place.

#45 emmittstaubach

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:13 PM

I was driving into work this morning listening to Mike & Mike on espn. They were interviewing Brett Musburger. Let's just say it irritated me... b/c he nearly came close to the exact reason with what went wrong at PSU and doesn't even have a clue = kinda' like his overuse and abuse of saying "the honey badger" during last year's title game when I'd imagine everyone in the world wanted him to shutup after saying it for the 20th time or whatever. Anyway, I know he has ties to the BigTen and Pac12 way of thought, and with being immersed in the culture as long as he has I can only assume the reality is hard for him to absorb. But before I get off point, he was making the typical argument that this was a crime issue and not a PSU football issue (straight out of JoePa's mouth, so no surprise who he probably looked-up to his entire life). And he clearly took a stance against the NCAA for even getting involved in the issue and began whinning about the PSU seniors that are there in the football program (ones without real NFL futures) and how it is such an injustice to them.

Puke! Let me be very clear in my personal experience of environment and culture, an experience in which I have been afforded to visit about 40 of our 50 states and be immersed in roughly 35 cultures around the world.... with speaking in regard to educational environments I have always classified 2 places in being very similar to how the people in the community perceive themselves versus how the general public perceives them. One of them was in College Station, TX and the other was in State College, PA. Obviously I am talking about Texas A&M and Penn St. Now, the point of me bringing all this up is to express (to people especially like Musburger) that we were not just dealing with a crime and/or its connection or disconnection with a certain program, but dealing with a culture that enabled it to happen (even if totally unknowingly by the masses within said culture).

The NCAA 100% was responsible for taking action. They are supposed to be the guardians against unfair advantages and support a code of ethics within all collegiate practices. Forget about the misguidedness that some perceive the NCAA had no right to get involved due to the crime... that I agree with = a crime is a crime and it will get dealt with by the judicial system. THE REASON PSU WAS GETTING SANCTIONED WAS DUE TO THE COVER-UP OF THE CRIME, PRIMARILY BY HEAD MEMBERS DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM, AND PRIMARILY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM TO CONTINUE WITHOUT ANY DISTRACTION.

What idiots like Musburger fail to realize is that PSU started creating an unfair advantage for themselves in 1998 (as far as we know). By covering up this mess they were afforded the opportunity at continuing to run the recruiting, the program, and the money-making machine. Obtaining top recruits during this time and divulging in all the luxuries brought to them by their billions of dollars of funds running through the system = they created an unfair advantage on the field for 2 decades = A DIRECT NO-NO WHEN IT COMES TO BREAKING NCAA RULES.

In reference to some of the penalties:
- I think the withdrawal of wins goes hand-in-hand with how most feel about what would have happened if PSU took care of their business ethics 14 years ago. Obviously they wouldn't have lost all those games, but how would one ever decided if they would have just avergaed losing 40%, 70%, 55%...? Just getting rid of them all was a clear punishment on that end.
- The $60M is chump change and I for one think it easily could have been exceeded. That value is only an estimated yearly net given out by the university, without taking into regard many other factors and contributions. It is not foolish to think PSU has a quarter of a billion dollars flowing from their program's existence each year. So to probably put it in a more layman perspective, imagine basically stealing $6,000 and only having to pay $60 back.
- The Bowl penalities and scholarship removals are a direct hit to "the culture" for the purpose of letting the university know they are getting knocked down from their high-horse of thought, giving a damaged perspective to something that was/is proven to be overly worshipped in the wrong manner, or at least to the wrong extent.
- And for all those complaining about the current players, students, faculties, community/state businesses: you dance at the devil's illegal party, you all go down when the cops show up (even if you thought the party was legit). We all know the players have an out if they want to take it. The students are there for an education... an education that has been backed and improved through unjust absorption of funds, yet no new buildings or technologies are getting torn down that were paid for by the program, so just be glad that you get to go to such a resourceful and vast place of study. The teacher's jobs/salaries won't get touched... it's amazing to me how many in the general public have no idea how much money actual goes through a place like PSU. And for the community businesses that are going to take a hit, just be thankful that no one is asking for you to repay on all the false business you earned for two decades!

Like dbrp said, PSU will recover in time (my guess is after 2020)... they just need to start taking those steps forward so they can make this time the past.

I find this post kinda ironic--I've always felt that long BEFORE 1998, that football factories in the SEC had unfair advantage in recruiting. Yes, football was HUGE at Penn State, and yes, football players had advantages, but in the many years I've been watching PSU, I've seen MANY interviews with players and frankly, most of the players at PS seemed more intelligent and well spoken. Past players have always spoken of grades being of equal importance, and being good citizens and successful outside of football. I heard of tutors and GPAs quite frequently, but what did i hear when they interviewed LSU's RB or the S from Alabama? Ebonics. Just sayin'.

I would have to see video of JoePa himself in the shower with a couple of 10-year-olds before you'd change my opinion of the man--a good man and the greatest college football coach of all time. I feel for the victim's, but the sick cretin that did it is in jail for 45 years, the president and athletic director are fired, and the coach is dead. Besides a victim fund, what should be required? Corporate America is sending our young men and women to the middle east to fight and die to profit a small group of rich people. Isn't that worse?
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#46 boutteman

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

there's plenty of things that are bad in this world e.s., and that is a fact.
sure it might help some to rationalize in order to feel better about this or that with a situation or with their lives (it's common in human nature to do so), but if the reality is just taken for what it is... it's just that (nothing else) and no other comparisons will better what has already happened.
i'm well aware of your opinion with the advantages of recruiting, and while some of your points are indesputible and true, those points or advantages are not against the system/industry that exist for the purposes for which it regulates its business.
what took place in "happy valley" went against pretty much anything someone could think of in terms of a program's cleanliness or moral standard.
sure, PSU may have more recruits that talk a "northern english" (lol) compared to some from the SEC that talk ghetto, but you nor I's opinion of that will change anything... just like I'm sure I can find plenty of recruits at LSU (where Dr.James Andrews went), Florida or Vandy that would squash a BigTen recruit in a debate... especially high recruits that made your program powerful like the one below:
Posted Image

You still think LaVar would have gone to PSU, or PSU would have been ranked #1, and PSU would have gotten this cover and positive media attention in 1999 if things were done properly before the 1998 season?
And all I can say about your comment about JoePa is that it saddens me, not just for the obvious reasons that most on here never accussed him of being a molestor (just an enabler), but that your stand is a perfect example of what I meant with my experiences on Texas A&M and PSU campuses.

#47 .G2.

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:15 PM

It could be worse, Heck I like UNLV.

#48 karmaisabeautifulthing

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:05 PM

First one gone:
http://espn.go.com/c...e-nittany-lions


Actually 'boutte, Tim Buckley has become the first player to transfer from PS (NC STATE) in the wake of NCAA sanctions. He was the back up safety. Still, the majority of coach O'Brien's core players appear to be sticking with PS, determined to weather out what could be a stormy season.

O'Brien said at Big Ten media days last week in Chicago that more than 50 players have re-affirmed their commitment to PS, though he did expect some transfers. Two Class of 2013 recruits have de-committed over the last week, but six prospects visited O'Brien over the weekend before standing by their verbal commitments.

IMO, Redd is thinking football and NOT academics as to the player's who are committed to stay. We all know PS has better education then Southern Cal. On the other hand, Redd is a dynamic player with lots of potential, he needs to be somewhere he can play in the post season.
 
 
 

#49 boutteman

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:37 PM

yeah, unless I got the link wrong it should have been about the Buckley kid leaving for NC State.
I'm guessing less than 10 guys from the current team actually go anywhere... After the season is over we might see more put in their transfer paperwork b/c then they will get an opportunity to go through a complete offseason with where ever they choose to go.

#50 karmaisabeautifulthing

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:51 PM

yeah, unless I got the link wrong it should have been about the Buckley kid leaving for NC State.
I'm guessing less than 10 guys from the current team actually go anyway... After the season is over we might see more put in their transfer paperwork b/c then they will get an opportunity to go through a complete offseason with where ever they choose to go.


LOL. I never even looked at the link. MY BAD :huh: Since Redd is making all the headlines, I thought you're link pertained to Redd. This is the 3rd time in ONE week I goofed up on you. My age is showing too much anymore lol.

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#51 karmaisabeautifulthing

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:07 AM

I find this post kinda ironic--I've always felt that long BEFORE 1998, that football factories in the SEC had unfair advantage in recruiting. Yes, football was HUGE at Penn State, and yes, football players had advantages, but in the many years I've been watching PSU, I've seen MANY interviews with players and frankly, most of the players at PS seemed more intelligent and well spoken. Past players have always spoken of grades being of equal importance, and being good citizens and successful outside of football. I heard of tutors and GPAs quite frequently, but what did i hear when they interviewed LSU's RB or the S from Alabama? Ebonics. Just sayin'.

I would have to see video of JoePa himself in the shower with a couple of 10-year-olds before you'd change my opinion of the man--a good man and the greatest college football coach of all time. I feel for the victim's, but the sick cretin that did it is in jail for 45 years, the president and athletic director are fired, and the coach is dead. Besides a victim fund, what should be required? Corporate America is sending our young men and women to the middle east to fight and die to profit a small group of rich people. Isn't that worse?


AMEN, my friend.
 
 
 

#52 boutteman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:10 AM

Here's Redd's decision:
http://espn.go.com/l...ing-usc-trojans


#53 boutteman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:14 AM

And Bolden finally gets the release he wanted last year:
http://espn.go.com/c...ers-report-says


#54 karmaisabeautifulthing

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:04 AM

And Bolden finally gets the release he wanted last year:
http://espn.go.com/c...ers-report-says


No loss on that one. :lol:
 
 
 

#55 boutteman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:31 PM

Khairi Fortt headed to California:
http://espn.go.com/c...ia-golden-bears

#56 boutteman

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:50 PM

Noooo, not the Kicker!
http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=8227555

This kid is from my high school alma mater and I guess the nuns got to him and told him to leave babylon, lol. Growing up in TX it makes since that he would go to UT.

#57 SSC

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:14 PM

Is this really that much different in principle than what Septien was charged with while he was a Cowboy. In that case the courts handed a slap on the wrist(IMO) never requiring him to spend a day in jail for being convicted of indecency with a child.

I do not feel that the entire football program, students(past present and future) should be punished but those involved should feel the heavy hand of the law as it slaps them upside the head!
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#58 Quickdraw

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:36 AM

Is this really that much different in principle than what Septien was charged with while he was a Cowboy. In that case the courts handed a slap on the wrist(IMO) never requiring him to spend a day in jail for being convicted of indecency with a child.

I do not feel that the entire football program, students(past present and future) should be punished but those involved should feel the heavy hand of the law as it slaps them upside the head!


I am in agreement with this. Penn State the university should not have to suffer for this but the people involved in the scandal should pay dearly.

EDIT: However in thinking about this, I guess the reason the university is suffering the consequences is because the people involved in this scandal ARE the university. Maybe that's what the NCAA figured as well.
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#59 .G2.

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:37 PM

Had they all paid for what happened in the late 80's they would have been fined and punished. The fact they weren't says they got away with it and that's cheating.

#60 boutteman

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:15 AM

WR Justin Brown heading to Sooners:
http://espn.go.com/c...ccording-source





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