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DB is absolute priority #1

DB is priority

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#1 czarnickolas

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:03 AM

Why does it seem to me that the defensive backfield is the absolutely, positively #1 priority in the draft? (barring free agent signing). I mean we lost BOTH CB's and 2 safeties. That is 3/4 of your backfield (just counting starters). Signing Carroll helps somewhat and yet you STILL have only half the DB backfield accounted for. So it seems logical to me that the first guy coming off THAT board is going to be a DB. Thoughts?


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#2 Five Superbowls

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:09 AM

You have a good point, picks 1 and 2 will be defense..

#3 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:30 AM

Why does it seem to me that the defensive backfield is the absolutely, positively #1 priority in the draft? (barring free agent signing). I mean we lost BOTH CB's and 1 safety. That is 3/4 of your backfield. Signing Carroll helps somewhat and yet you STILL have only half the DB backfield accounted for. So it seems logical to me that the first guy coming off THAT board is going to be a DB. Thoughts?

 

You are wrong. 2 CB's and 2 safeties both Church and Wilcox.

 

I agree DB needs to be addressed and very well be with 2 of our first 3 picks.



#4 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:39 AM

I don't see it as a huge priority.

 

Marinelli sees box safeties as a very low priority position, where he can just plug and play a JAG from anywhere. And it's not hard to replace a guy like Carr.

 

DEs in the 4-3 are both crucial and tough to find. You always pick one up if you can.


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#5 czarnickolas

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:52 AM

You are wrong. 2 CB's and 2 safeties both Church and Wilcox.

 

I agree DB needs to be addressed and very well be with 2 of our first 3 picks.

True. I left him off because he was not a starter, but have reworded my post. Thanks for the heads up.



#6 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:57 AM

I don't see it as a huge priority.

 

Marinelli sees box safeties as a very low priority position, where he can just plug and play a JAG from anywhere. And it's not hard to replace a guy like Carr.

 

DEs in the 4-3 are both crucial and tough to find. You always pick one up if you can.

 

We are picking 28, so there's no guarantee a RE worthy of the pick will be there.

 

Do you want a guy to be slightly better then Carr, or much better then Carr?

 

True. I left him off because he was not a starter, but have reworded my post. Thanks for the heads up.

 

No worries, I was being a little sarcastic when I wrote that FYI.



#7 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:01 AM

We are picking 28, so there's no guarantee a RE worthy of the pick will be there.

 

Do you want a guy to be slightly better then Carr, or much better then Carr?

 

It doesn't make a huge difference in our defense. We don't really attack and expose our DBs, so those guys usually have help. I mean, you don't exactly need Patrick Peterson when you're regularly dropping 8 into coverage.

 

REs? Those dudes don't have help. You need a guy talented enough to beat left tackles 1 on 1.


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#8 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:15 AM

It doesn't make a huge difference in our defense. We don't really attack and expose our DBs, so those guys usually have help. I mean, you don't exactly need Patrick Peterson when you're regularly dropping 8 into coverage.

 

REs? Those dudes don't have help. You need a guy talented enough to beat left tackles 1 on 1.

 

You didn't answer my question though.

 

"We are picking 28, so there's no guarantee a RE worthy of the pick will be there."

 

We haven't had a DB who can get in position, and have the ability to make a play on the ball either.

 

Mo had the ability to make a play on the ball, but was rarely on the field and when he was most of his career he wasn't in position to attack the ball.

 

Scandrick has bad hands and is not a playmaker.

 

Carr was not a playmaker.

 

Church again not a playmaker.

 

Wilcox.... NOT A PLAYMAKER.

 

We have lacked a guy who can make plays happen in the secondary. We can fix that this year in the draft.


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#9 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:51 AM

You didn't answer my question though.

 

"We are picking 28, so there's no guarantee a RE worthy of the pick will be there."

 

We haven't had a DB who can get in position, and have the ability to make a play on the ball either.

 

Mo had the ability to make a play on the ball, but was rarely on the field and when he was most of his career he wasn't in position to attack the ball.

 

Scandrick has bad hands and is not a playmaker.

 

Carr was not a playmaker.

 

Church again not a playmaker.

 

Wilcox.... NOT A PLAYMAKER.

 

We have lacked a guy who can make plays happen in the secondary. We can fix that this year in the draft.

 

No one can say for sure that there will be a quality RE at 28. But there is a lot of late first round type DEs in this draft, so the odds are pointing to it.

 

You don't necessarily a DB who can play the ball either, and ball skills are hands down the most overrated facet of DB play. Give me a Scandrick who can mirror prime Wes Welker all day long over a gambler with a flashy highlight reel. Fans emphasize ball skills because it's the only time they ever see DBs on camera, but the best DBs are the ones you never see. 


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#10 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:59 AM

No one can say for sure that there will be a quality RE at 28. But there is a lot of late first round type DEs in this draft, so the odds are pointing to it.

 

You don't necessarily a DB who can play the ball either, and ball skills are hands down the most overrated facet of DB play. Give me a Scandrick who can mirror prime Wes Welker all day long over a gambler with a flashy highlight reel. Fans emphasize ball skills because it's the only time they ever see DBs on camera, but the best DBs are the ones you never see. 

 

That was like 5 years ago.

 

Who would you rather have Janoris Jenkins or Scandrick?

 

This team doesn't need a DE it needs a RE. Quick get off and good bend.



#11 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:02 AM

That was like 5 years ago.

 

Who would you rather have Janoris Jenkins or Scandrick?

 

This team doesn't need a DE it needs a RE. Quick get off and good bend.

 

If we're talking career, Scandrick. Jenkins was very up and down in St. Louis.

 

TJ Watt and Jordan Willis are the guys I'm watching at the bottom of the first. Both 95th percentile NFL athletes with speed, burst, bend, and phenomenal college production. Takk and Harris, I'm a little more meh on, but if Marinelli's good with them then I'm good with them.


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#12 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:09 AM

If we're talking career, Scandrick. Jenkins was very up and down in St. Louis.

 

TJ Watt and Jordan Willis are the guys I'm watching at the bottom of the first. Both 95th percentile NFL athletes with speed, burst, bend, and phenomenal college production. Takk and Harris, I'm a little more meh on, but if Marinelli's good with them then I'm good with them.

 

Watt scares the hell out of me both good and bad. 

 

Good, because I think he has top 15 potential in this draft. Bad.... the injuries!! 

 

Harris I'm with you I think he has the quickness and ability to be a good pass rushing RE, but he is also really really bad against the run and much of that is intelligence and motor.

 

Jordon Willis is good, but not 1st round good IMO. Don't see him being a consistent 10+ sack guy honestly.

 

Much of Jenkins up and downs was like you said before jumping routes and being baited. But this year he looked much much better out there. I would take Jenkins all day over Scandrick and IMO it's not even close.



#13 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:14 AM

Watt scares the hell out of me both good and bad. 

 

Good, because I think he has top 15 potential in this draft. Bad.... the injuries!! 

 

Harris I'm with you I think he has the quickness and ability to be a good pass rushing RE, but he is also really really bad against the run and much of that is intelligence and motor.

 

Jordon Willis is good, but not 1st round good IMO. Don't see him being a consistent 10+ sack guy honestly.

 

Much of Jenkins up and downs was like you said before jumping routes and being baited. But this year he looked much much better out there. I would take Jenkins all day over Scandrick and IMO it's not even close.

 

I saw Watt's spider chart, and then as soon as I saw that bend on tape I was sold. I knocked Willis too at first, but then I noticed that he was usually being shaded inside as a 5 tech. He could be a completely different guy if he gets turned loose outside.

 

The broad jump and 20 yard shuttle are often seen as being the benchmarks for pass rushers, because that is a measure of explosion and bend. Check out how Watt and Willis did there.

 

https://www.mockdraf...att?position=DE

https://www.mockdraf...r/jordan-willis

 

Jenkins took his game to another level this year, but he is also 3 years younger than Scandrick, with no ACL injury, and playing behind a better line than Scandrick's ever had. Let's see how he does in 2020 after missing a season with a bad wheel.


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#14 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:19 AM

I saw Watt's spider chart, and then as soon as I saw that bend on tape I was sold. I knocked Willis too at first, but then I noticed that he was usually being shaded inside as a 5 tech. He could be a completely different guy if he gets turned loose outside.

 

The broad jump and 20 yard shuttle are often seen as being the benchmarks for pass rushers, because that is a measure of explosion and bend. Check out how Watt and Willis did there.

 

https://www.mockdraf...att?position=DE

https://www.mockdraf...r/jordan-willis

 

Jenkins took his game to another level this year, but he is also 3 years younger than Scandrick, with no ACL injury, and playing behind a better line than Scandrick's ever had. Let's see how he does in 2020 after missing a season with a bad wheel.

 

I'm just saying Jenkins overall game. The dude makes plays on the ball, and gets it back for the offense if he doesn't score it himself.



#15 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:27 AM

I'm just saying Jenkins overall game. The dude makes plays on the ball, and gets it back for the offense if he doesn't score it himself.

 

And he's gave up quite a few points guessing and whiffing.

 

Turnovers are a sexy stat, I get it, but ball skills are pretty much the last thing I look for with DBs. I'd even put run support ahead of it - force players on the edge who can keep runs inside are a valuable thing to have.


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#16 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:34 AM

And he's gave up quite a few points guessing and whiffing.

 

Turnovers are a sexy stat, I get it, but ball skills are pretty much the last thing I look for with DBs. I'd even put run support ahead of it - force players on the edge who can keep runs inside are a valuable thing to have.

 

Ball skills are sexy, but are important too. This defense doesn't have any playmakers at DB, and I agree you need guys to do the dirty work, but you need at least 1 guy at every level who can change the momentum of a game.



#17 beware d-ware

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:46 AM

Ball skills are sexy, but are important too. This defense doesn't have any playmakers at DB, and I agree you need guys to do the dirty work, but you need at least 1 guy at every level who can change the momentum of a game.

 

Our secondary was one of the best in the league last year, even though we had no one who could make a play on the ball. We just had half a dozen pretty average DBs, so we just flooded the back end with zone and man-under that had no weak links.

 

Four of those guys are now gone, but I don't think the fundamental approach has changed. Get aware guys who can trigger on a throw and make a sure tackle.


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#18 TruBlueSince1982

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:57 AM

Should we be the ones going after Revis to convert to S?   Probably a pretty expensive project, but obvious position flex would be great for us along with some hands.  I kinda like the idea myself if it was somewhat afordable


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#19 daygoboy6191

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:00 AM

Our secondary was one of the best in the league last year, even though we had no one who could make a play on the ball. We just had half a dozen pretty average DBs, so we just flooded the back end with zone and man-under that had no weak links.

 

Four of those guys are now gone, but I don't think the fundamental approach has changed. Get aware guys who can trigger on a throw and make a sure tackle.

 

We allowed the 6th most passing yards PG. Worst 5 in INT's, and passing attempts 3rd most while having the 2nd best TOP on defense.

 

Ranked 12th in sack and that's with a totally banged up d-line, and bad and/ inured DB's.

 

So when you consider our defense was on the field the 2nd least amount of time of any NFL team, and we gave up the 6th most passing yards on the 3rd most attempts per game that's not showing very well for our defense but especially our secondary.

 

I'm confident we will get better line play if healthy, but unless we draft DB's we are going to be looking at nearly the same results. Teams will just pass on us all day.  


Should we be the ones going after Revis to convert to S?   Probably a pretty expensive project, but obvious position flex would be great for us along with some hands.  I kinda like the idea myself if it was somewhat afordable

 

No we should not.


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#20 TruBlueSince1982

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:05 AM

Don't think he can be our Charles Woodson or too much money? If it worked why not.. Woodson played till what 38 and was still highly effective at S.  

 

We could potentially have a top S for the next 6-7 years if it worked out and he stayed healthy.  Sounds like a no brainer to me.  






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