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Poor Lonzo Ball


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#41 atlantacowboy

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 01:20 PM

Lonzo ball finished with 5 points in 32 minutes. To put that into perspective, the guy taken after him scored 23 in 32 minutes, and fultz is averaging 40 per 48... (23 in 26 minutes)

Being the best rookie on his team is a long shot, let alone being the best rookie in the league

 

The kids got game.  He's struggling with his shot.   But, he doesn't need to score a lot to dominate a game.  He came back with a triple double the following night. 

 

Worst case,   he can be a Jason Kidd type ..... KIdd was a horrific shooter but dominated in many other facets of the game. 

 

Lonzo's biggest challenge is going to be overcoming the huge target his dad put on his back. 


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#42 Oreycsg

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:17 PM

The kids got game. He's struggling with his shot. But, he doesn't need to score a lot to dominate a game. He came back with a triple double the following night.

Worst case, he can be a Jason Kidd type ..... KIdd was a horrific shooter but dominated in many other facets of the game.

Lonzo's biggest challenge is going to be overcoming the huge target his dad put on his back.


He had a triple double against D league talent while he had TJ leaf and Brandon Ingram plus he only scored 11 in 32 minutes. Its hard to get excited about him when mechanically he is one the worst prospects in the draft. Fox is more athletic, Fultz is a well rounded shooted and distributor, DSJ has better mid range and is better around the rim. Tatum is a better scorer, bigger, and has defense, Josh Jackson is bigger has a better shot and defense.... Monk is the best shooter in the draft.

Russell was a better shooter and had just as good if not better ball distribution. And he already knew the team... Im sorry but it was a mistake by a bad GM who just wants story lines.

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#43 mrsouthpaw

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 03:47 AM

The kids got game. He's struggling with his shot. But, he doesn't need to score a lot to dominate a game. He came back with a triple double the following night.

Worst case, he can be a Jason Kidd type ..... KIdd was a horrific shooter but dominated in many other facets of the game.

Lonzo's biggest challenge is going to be overcoming the huge target his dad put on his back.

11 points isn't something to brag about.

Yes, his father is his biggest problem. His father only cares about himself. I wish nothing bad upon the kid but for something to simply shut that jackass up.

LOL. Just saw a headline, "Is Ball too hurt to play or sitting to save face?"

#44 atlantacowboy

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

He had a triple double against D league talent while he had TJ leaf and Brandon Ingram plus he only scored 11 in 32 minutes. Its hard to get excited about him when mechanically he is one the worst prospects in the draft. Fox is more athletic, Fultz is a well rounded shooted and distributor, DSJ has better mid range and is better around the rim. Tatum is a better scorer, bigger, and has defense, Josh Jackson is bigger has a better shot and defense.... Monk is the best shooter in the draft.

Russell was a better shooter and had just as good if not better ball distribution. And he already knew the team... Im sorry but it was a mistake by a bad GM who just wants story lines.

 

Talking about mechanics when it come to shooting a basketball is absurd.  No 2 guys shoot the ball the same way.  Its not like throwing a football. 

 

I think I covered your shooting criticism.  Another guy who was a bad shooter is Magic Johnson.  Your using the wrong metric to evaluate this kid.   Shooters are a dime a dozen in the NBA.  The value is in the rare player who can make his teammates better.  Ball has the kind of court vision you can't teach,  and he's only 19.


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#45 kskboys

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

Talking about mechanics when it come to shooting a basketball is absurd.  No 2 guys shoot the ball the same way.  Its not like throwing a football. 

 

I think I covered your shooting criticism.  Another guy who was a bad shooter is Magic Johnson.  Your using the wrong metric to evaluate this kid.   Shooters are a dime a dozen in the NBA.  The value is in the rare player who can make his teammates better.  Ball has the kind of court vision you can't teach,  and he's only 19.

That's what most people miss about Curry.   Yes, he's a great shooter, no doubt.   However, that would be nothing w/o his ability to make his teammates better, which he possesses to the nth.   


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My doctor told me to start killing people.   Well, not  in those exact words.   He said I had to reduce the stress in my life.    Same thing, really. 


#46 Oreycsg

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 05:33 PM

Talking about mechanics when it come to shooting a basketball is absurd. No 2 guys shoot the ball the same way. Its not like throwing a football.

I think I covered your shooting criticism. Another guy who was a bad shooter is Magic Johnson. Your using the wrong metric to evaluate this kid. Shooters are a dime a dozen in the NBA. The value is in the rare player who can make his teammates better. Ball has the kind of court vision you can't teach, and he's only 19.


It isnt like that at all. Players shooting form can be broken and his is for sure broken. The time it takes for him to get from set up to release is too long for the nba, his low release coupled with the slow release is going to cause him to get blocked a lot. He is trying to improve his release time but its causing him to miss the basket. Im not saying he cant fix it, im saying his shooting form doesnt translate to the nba well.

Making his team better is easy when you are playing against D league talent. Im sorry, but he hasnt shown me anything in the summer league that has made me want to praise him over Fox DSJ Tatum Jackson or Fultz all players who showed more talent with fewer good supporting players.

Nkne of this is to say he will be bad. He just doesnt translate well. He has an amazing work ethic, and hopefully that pays off. But he went to the worst possible location for himself for a few reasons
1. The lakers story. Every kid growing up wants to be a laker. They are the cowboys of basketball. Famed. Loved or hated. There is a lot of pressure on him to take a team that was 2nd worst in the league and make them great again.
2. The DeAngelo trade added pressure too. He is a rookie and while it showed confidence in his ability from the lakers it also said"we are putting this entire team on YOUR back."
3. the lime light. He will be under the microscope from now on. Anything he does will be criticized or praised. No inbetween.

Im rooting for Lonzo. I love him as a person. His mechanics just do not translate to the nba. And to say mechanicss dont play a part of shooting is ridiculous.

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#47 uvaballa

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 05:56 PM

He had a triple double against D league talent while he had TJ leaf and Brandon Ingram plus he only scored 11 in 32 minutes. Its hard to get excited about him when mechanically he is one the worst prospects in the draft. Fox is more athletic, Fultz is a well rounded shooted and distributor, DSJ has better mid range and is better around the rim. Tatum is a better scorer, bigger, and has defense, Josh Jackson is bigger has a better shot and defense.... Monk is the best shooter in the draft.

Russell was a better shooter and had just as good if not better ball distribution. And he already knew the team... Im sorry but it was a mistake by a bad GM who just wants story lines.

Magic said they wanted a true leader and that's why they got rid of Russell. He was a scoring PG but it sounds like he was a bad leader. You can't really teach that leadership and that's what the Lakers wanted. Plus many teammates didn't trust Russell after he threw Nick Young under the bus. The Lakers have guys like Ingram who can score the ball. They made the right move.
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#48 atlantacowboy

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 06:22 PM

It isnt like that at all. Players shooting form can be broken and his is for sure broken. The time it takes for him to get from set up to release is too long for the nba, his low release coupled with the slow release is going to cause him to get blocked a lot. He is trying to improve his release time but its causing him to miss the basket. Im not saying he cant fix it, im saying his shooting form doesnt translate to the nba well.

Making his team better is easy when you are playing against D league talent. Im sorry, but he hasnt shown me anything in the summer league that has made me want to praise him over Fox DSJ Tatum Jackson or Fultz all players who showed more talent with fewer good supporting players.

Nkne of this is to say he will be bad. He just doesnt translate well. He has an amazing work ethic, and hopefully that pays off. But he went to the worst possible location for himself for a few reasons
1. The lakers story. Every kid growing up wants to be a laker. They are the cowboys of basketball. Famed. Loved or hated. There is a lot of pressure on him to take a team that was 2nd worst in the league and make them great again.
2. The DeAngelo trade added pressure too. He is a rookie and while it showed confidence in his ability from the lakers it also said"we are putting this entire team on YOUR back."
3. the lime light. He will be under the microscope from now on. Anything he does will be criticized or praised. No inbetween.

Im rooting for Lonzo. I love him as a person. His mechanics just do not translate to the nba. And to say mechanicss dont play a part of shooting is ridiculous.

 

Hmm.   Never seen a "release time" stat or any coorelation between release time and FG %.   I think your making stuff up b/c it sounds good in your head. 



#49 Oreycsg

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:02 PM

Hmm. Never seen a "release time" stat or any coorelation between release time and FG %. I think your making stuff up b/c it sounds good in your head.


Or you can just watch his tape and se that he takes twice as long to wind up and release as his counterparts... Its not hard to see

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#50 atlantacowboy

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:34 PM

Or you can just watch his tape and se that he takes twice as long to wind up and release as his counterparts... Its not hard to see

 

With James stopping by to catch a glimpse of the No. 2 overall pick, Ball exploded for 36 points, 11 assists, eight rebounds, five steals and two blocks in the Los Angeles Lakers' 103-102 win over the Philadelphia 76ers at the Thomas & Mack Center.

 

 

Looks like your basketball evaluations are even worse than than your football ones.  :lol:



#51 Oreycsg

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:23 PM

1. It was a comeback win against how many nba starters?
2. He dropped that in 36 minutes and is the only rookie that has needed to play that long in any game so far.

He can be good. Im not saying he wont be. I just dont think he was worth the second overall pick. And the lakers record this year will show it. You cam bandwagon all you want. It wont change that fact

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#52 atlantacowboy

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:40 PM

1. It was a comeback win against how many nba starters?
2. He dropped that in 36 minutes and is the only rookie that has needed to play that long in any game so far.

He can be good. Im not saying he wont be. I just dont think he was worth the second overall pick. And the lakers record this year will show it. You cam bandwagon all you want. It wont change that fact

 

Lakers are rebuilding.  That is not news.   Playoffs would be a major achievement in the West.

 

Keep ignoring the entire stat line and pretending your not impressed.



#53 Oreycsg

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 03:39 AM

The statline is a joke. Yeah he put up solid numbers but he was 30% from 3 and then follows it with a 20% fg the bight after. Im sorry, but he isnt going to be great this season. He might not even be good this season. He can get there if he fixes his shooting mechanics. He is going to get blocked. A lot.

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#54 atlantacowboy

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:07 AM

The statline is a joke. Yeah he put up solid numbers but he was 30% from 3 and then follows it with a 20% fg the bight after. Im sorry, but he isnt going to be great this season. He might not even be good this season. He can get there if he fixes his shooting mechanics. He is going to get blocked. A lot.

 

 

 

Stat line is a joke? Only b/c it makes a joke out of your side of the debate.     2 triple doubles........lead summer league with 9.2 assists per.........shot 5-7 in the semifinal game...  yep,   definitely want to ignore the stats in that evaluation of yours.



#55 Oreycsg

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

Pick: No. 2 overall
Summer league debut: 2012
Per game stats: 18 points, 8.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists
"It was just one game, but already, Kidd-Gilchrist showed why he's the centerpiece of the Bobcats' rebuilding effort." - Mike Prada, SB Nation

Forgive me father for i have sinned. Stats in summer league dont lie at all. A player with impressive stats but terrible fg% totally always turn out great, and always become all-stars. A broken jumper is a broken jumper.

I agree he can become something. I never said he was bad. His shot is terrible and he needs to fix it. But he is good at passing the ball, and that is a big asset. Its just not enough for me when they moved their best shooter and ball handler to pick him up when they could have had both.
Its just a terrible decision.


Like i said before i hope he can become a great player, i am rooting for him. He seems like a humble kid, even though he was raised by the ego maniac himself. But ignoring a problem like his shot form is how you get busts in the nba. He needs to fix it if he wants to lead the lakers back to the finals.

As a philly fan i hate the lakers, but i wan them to be good because the league is more fun to watch when the lakers are good. Or when the celtics are good, or Philly.

They need serious perimiter shooting help, Russell could have played the 2 with Lonzo at the 1 and that would have been killer... But instead no one can shoot a 3 and that will haunt them

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#56 atlantacowboy

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 03:25 PM

I'm not talking about the Russell trade.   Thats got nothing to do with Lonzo Ball..............and neither does Kidd-Gilchrist.  The lakers are Magic Johnson's show right now and he has them nicely positioned to add 2 max contracts next year.  Forget the team in 2017.   Everything Magic has done thus far is for 2018.  Russell is not a team player and didm't fit into their plans.  Until Russell actually does something in NBA,  you can't argue it was a mistake.  Being the best player on the Lakers last year is not saying much.

 

Its better to show something in the summer league than nothing at all.  MVP is a nice start and certainly not a harbinger of bad things to come.



#57 Oreycsg

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 05:12 PM

Its nicd to show something. And he did. His passing is nice. But he isnt a good shooter. I believe his average fg% in the sl is less than 35%
He was touted for his shooting. If he can fix that he will be good. Im very concerned with his shooting form though. Like i said its slow. It forced him to shoot from farther out than he should have in college. If he cant fix his perimiter shooting then he will never be great.

He isnt in a great place to fix it though. He needs time, and lakers fans are some of the least patient in the league. I hope he does well though, cause a Fultz Ball rivalry is just flat out good for the nba. They will be fun to watch.


I only bring up other sl stats to show that its not a great indicator of how you will do in the nba. There are pleanty of SL players that flop. Just saying. I hope every rookie from this class becomes a star because the nba needs a resurgence of young talent

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#58 atlantacowboy

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 05:54 PM

Ball's best quality is an intangible.  He is a born leader and has the kind of court vision that makes his teammates better.  Thats why he was picked #2.   Nobody is claiming he's the second coming of Steph Curry.   Lonzo is more like Jason Kidd who didn't shoot over 38% until his 4th season...........but still dominated the floor.


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#59 Oreycsg

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:39 PM

The only thing i question about that in the current NBA is the fact that the point guard position has evolved to a level where you almost need the 3 point shot to open up your 2nd and 3rd option. He isnt amazing out of the pick and roll. All im saying is he needs a lot of work. (as does Fultz and Tatum) He needs to develop either as a shooter or a driver if he is going to be a top 10 pg.

There are plenty of people that have claimed he is as good if not better than Curry, when that comparison is way off base. Thats like saying Leonard fournette is the next Matt Forte. They play completely different styles of football, just like Lonzo is a different kind of PG.

I want to bring this back to a civil discussion. We disagree on Lonzo as of right now. I think he is over rated as a player based on his shooting style, something that will need to be fixed. I enjoy watching him play and hope he can develop atleast a John Wall type of play style where he has a mid range shot and drive to take defenders into the paint.
Would lobe to sed them grab a better shooter. Someone that is automatic at the 3. Honestly next year JJ Redick would be a good option. Their style of play would let him be a 3rd scoring option, but he is deadly from 3.

You see what im getting at? He isnt bad. He has a decent floor, and is a leader. But he needs to develop something else if he wants to be an all time great.

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#60 heathgs

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:08 PM

I hate the NBA and I hope this dude face plants in the league. Yeah, yeah. I'm jealous and you're on his nads. :)




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