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Defensive Line is the problem

DEFENSIVE LINE IS the problem

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#1 Kingsfisher

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:32 PM

Why ? Why has all this attention been given to the backend and middle level of the defense but not the def. line ? Our def. line is the weakness of this team, period. Only Collins shows promise. DLaw and DIrv are inconsistent if not suspended or hurt. TCraw, my favorite is only a second team backup at best. His inability to shine at any position has shown he is over paid. A dominant Defensive line is the strength of any defense, period, no exceptions. 5 All pro secondary players will not get it done if the DLine is weak or inconsistent or ineffective. I thought Stephen was changing things for the better. I do not care about Marinelli building nobodies into somebodies. That is fine in spare time. And I like Marnelli's defense. But this BS about not needing big guys in the middle is STUPID. Watch the top D's in the league who are consistently at the top every year. Copy them and do what they do. ALL of them have great D lines. Both teams in last years Super Bowl had great D lines. We cannot win big if we do not have a great Dline. I do not understand how a former all SWC Off. lineman does not understand this. Mayowa is one dimensional, a speed rusher who gets blown away by top teams rushing. Thornton made some plays but is inconsistent and old. Thornton was also beat out in Philly by Benny Logan who took his snaps. GET A DEFENSIVE LINE PLEASE !


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#2 Kingsfisher

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:34 PM

Every single Cowboy team that ever won, had a great Def. line. We have not had one in 20 plus years. Demarcus Ware was alone most of the time. 


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#3 northerncowboynation

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:11 PM

Ware was alone when we switched to the 4-3. Actually the line was pretty damned good when we were in the 3-4 with both Ware and Spencer as OLB'ers and Ratt/Brent at NT while rotating Spear and Hatcher. Especially from 2007-2009. Then it fell apart with Ratt's injury and going off the deep end, Brents vehicular manslaughter and Spencer's injury in about 2012



#4 northerncowboynation

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:16 PM

Our D-line has potential with Collins and Paea. Thornton has to improve but he never played the 1 tech in Philly so it takes time. T Craw is solid at 3 tech if he's healthy. Call me stupid but I have hopes for Tapper, Taco, Mayowa and Moore. I'm hoping they make Irving an after thought actually


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#5 THE OZ OF COWBOY COUNTRY

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:53 PM

Be patient have faith. Our offensive line was not built over night, so it's ridiculous to think the defensive line can be built over night. Its a process.

Remember Tapper, Malik, Gregory, and Lawrence are all recent draft picks, so they have been trying.
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#6 Juggernaut

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:07 AM

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#7 ShutUp&Play

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:48 AM

The thing this dline is lacking is a guy who demands a double team. Collins I think can be that guy, from what he showed last year without a full training camp. Thornton is better than what he showed and should prove it this year. Crawford, sorry dude is a backup and should really be nothing but a LE. DLaw, in my opinion is shot two back surgeries and you are a couple years from 30 says a lot to me bout durability issues. Tapper I hope can be that guy off the RE and Taco I just need or want him to take the LE spot and be a hardnosed anchor in the run game first, then whatever he provides for pass rush is gravy. Iyvie when the pads come on this dude will be a force, Paea is a bulldog and will get snaps. Irving has to be ready to roll once he returns. Moore hopefully don't know will see, Mayowa one dimensional and gets swallowed vs run. Overall I like this group but they will need to work.


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#8 kskboys

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:20 AM

It's weak(albeit getting better) because we ignored it for so long, trying to fill the gap w/ cheap FA's and late rounders while our Brass went fishin' for carp.    You simply cannot pass up DL prospect after DL prospect and have a good DL.    

 

At least it's looking better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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My doctor told me to start killing people.   Well, not  in those exact words.   He said I had to reduce the stress in my life.    Same thing, really. 


#9 Kingsfisher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:29 AM

How close to being a great defense were we last year ? Were we actually #1 in rushing defense ? And our secondary got so good at coverage they were covering receivers (aka Rodgers) forever. To me it seemed we were two (2) players short upfront, dominate players who could get pressure on the Qb. We went from having the #1 defense in the league rushing to a half rebuild. We had at least a top 5 which is good enough and better than what we are. I understand Carr being let go. And all the others too if they wanted to leave. But Claiborne who plays well ? Church may have been getting old but gosh he blasted people but Wilcox too ? Then two of the most productive and best D linemen we had who always produced, McClain and Jack Crawford. I may be wrong but looked at their salaries and JCRaw is making 1.25 mil and McClain is making 2.25, could we not match or pay them more for what they have done ? Why when you are so close to being really good on D would you allow this to happen ? With the money free'd up from Carr we went and payed another guy 10 mil who I do not believe can beat out the two we have. Maybe its because I saw Dez abuse him but I don't understand. Anyway, until the defensive line is made a priority, #1 priority again like the Oline was this is what keeps us from another title shot. Patchwork players, Coach Marinelli developing under rated guys. I may not be as smart as any of you making the decisions. But I am an old man and have seen what works. A dominate defensive line with a great rotation of talented players wins, period. The D Line greatness starts at DT and only Collins is showing the type Cowboy potential I have watched since 1967. Thornton is a great backup, TCraw is my favorite Cowboy but cannot get it done and is a backup. Paea only had one decent year and it was not great in 2014. Now because he is back with Marinelli he will be the double teamed monster we look for ? Was Irving cheating, yes and did it help his production ? It scares me to death, I hoped he was elite. DLaw is the only other and he is inconsistent. Love Tapper and the others. But you have to start with your strength on any great D that is upfront.     When you build a house that will last, you must have a firm foundation. If you want to build a truck that will be strong, it must have a strong frame/chassis. It has been over 20 years since my Boys dominated upfront on D. Last year we came close and tore it down and started over. 


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#10 kskboys

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:05 PM

How close to being a great defense were we last year ? Were we actually #1 in rushing defense ? And our secondary got so good at coverage they were covering receivers (aka Rodgers) forever. To me it seemed we were two (2) players short upfront, dominate players who could get pressure on the Qb. We went from having the #1 defense in the league rushing to a half rebuild. We had at least a top 5 which is good enough and better than what we are. I understand Carr being let go. And all the others too if they wanted to leave. But Claiborne who plays well ? Church may have been getting old but gosh he blasted people but Wilcox too ? Then two of the most productive and best D linemen we had who always produced, McClain and Jack Crawford. I may be wrong but looked at their salaries and JCRaw is making 1.25 mil and McClain is making 2.25, could we not match or pay them more for what they have done ? Why when you are so close to being really good on D would you allow this to happen ? With the money free'd up from Carr we went and payed another guy 10 mil who I do not believe can beat out the two we have. Maybe its because I saw Dez abuse him but I don't understand. Anyway, until the defensive line is made a priority, #1 priority again like the Oline was this is what keeps us from another title shot. Patchwork players, Coach Marinelli developing under rated guys. I may not be as smart as any of you making the decisions. But I am an old man and have seen what works. A dominate defensive line with a great rotation of talented players wins, period. The D Line greatness starts at DT and only Collins is showing the type Cowboy potential I have watched since 1967. Thornton is a great backup, TCraw is my favorite Cowboy but cannot get it done and is a backup. Paea only had one decent year and it was not great in 2014. Now because he is back with Marinelli he will be the double teamed monster we look for ? Was Irving cheating, yes and did it help his production ? It scares me to death, I hoped he was elite. DLaw is the only other and he is inconsistent. Love Tapper and the others. But you have to start with your strength on any great D that is upfront.     When you build a house that will last, you must have a firm foundation. If you want to build a truck that will be strong, it must have a strong frame/chassis. It has been over 20 years since my Boys dominated upfront on D. Last year we came close and tore it down and started over. 

Dude.   We were so easy to pass against, teams didn't have to run against us.     It's not hard to realize that we were not the best team at stopping the run in the NFL.


My doctor told me to start killing people.   Well, not  in those exact words.   He said I had to reduce the stress in my life.    Same thing, really. 


#11 sulu1701

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:06 PM

Tom Brady has two SB losses against the Giants because their front 7 kept knocking him on his ass, and he wasn't able to exploit their bad secondary, defense is what wins period


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#12 jayhartRIC

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 07:30 PM

I disagree.  The d line is clearly upgraded from last year.  Paea is an upgrade from McClain.  Damontre Moore has looked good as RDE.  He might even start when he comes back from suspension.  We get to move Crawford back inside where he is better.  We have promising young talent in Collins, Irving and Taco. 



#13 charleshaleyfan

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:17 PM

if they are out on suspension, they are not an upgrade



#14 Kingsfisher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:54 PM

I disagree.  The d line is clearly upgraded from last year.  Paea is an upgrade from McClain.  Damontre Moore has looked good as RDE.  He might even start when he comes back from suspension.  We get to move Crawford back inside where he is better.  We have promising young talent in Collins, Irving and Taco. 

Upgraded from what? A mediocre/average Dline. My bad, a below average Dline. PAEA IS NOT an upgrade from McClain. I am not saying McClain was all that either. PAEA has not done anything since 2014 and even then he was average. Bottom line, we the fans are either optimistic at our D Line and are crushed the last 20 years. Or pessimistic and know how this same BS happens every year. Until the D LINE is made a PRIORITY, #1 priority, the rest of the team is fine, Until then we will not have a shot at another title. D's don't win titles, Defensive Lines win titles and the backend follows. Wherever you take the head the body follows. COLLINS is the only one who is championship, maybe DLaw. Crawford has let me down and is not a starter on a good defense



#15 Kingsfisher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:56 PM

if they are out on suspension, they are not an upgrade

That is a FACT ! And..... how do we know Irving will now continue to get better because he was cheating? Thornton was a BACKUP in Philly, the media made it like he was an upgrade. Benny Logan took his snaps. Thornton is gone, gone gone one week from kickoff gone and we pick up a guy without a job-waivers. 



#16 Kingsfisher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:05 PM

Tom Brady has two SB losses against the Giants because their front 7 kept knocking him on his ass, and he wasn't able to exploit their bad secondary, defense is what wins period

A perfect, perfect comment my friend. The DLINE is the DEFENSE. IF the DT, 1tech, 0tech, NT is at the ball and he is killing the center, demanding a double, already the play is disrupted. Next guy over the other DT, is whipping his man, the DE's are crashing through their men. The play timing, lanes, everything is disrupted. The secondary flourishes from turnovers, Lee cleans up all the trash along with the other Lb's. THIS is how it is supposed to be. But we have been PASSIVE with our DLINE for the past 20 years. Collins alone is a monster. TCraw has let me down, is overpaid for production, my favorite player, cannot find a spot, why ??? Because he is not great at any of them. DLaw has potential but needs consistency, and on and on. 



#17 Kingsfisher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:13 PM

Our Offense is loaded from the line to the outside edges. I would take NO replacement for any of our Offensive starters, Qb, Rb, TE, WR, OT, OG, etc.....

But the defensive line at best the last 20 years has been average upfront. And when we do seem to start building again, strengthening again we start at the top or backend (secondary) instead of the FOUNDATION, the Chassis, the front-end, the DLine. We take players without a home and try to make them something. We take late round picks and try to develop them. The TOP teams every single year in defense in the NFL take a big huge athletic DT/DE every single year in the first 3 rounds. Your base has to be strong. Collins gives me hope. He needs help, PLEASE make the DLINE a #1 priority like it used to be. An average secondary can look all-pro with a great DLine. Management saw the need for a great OLine, why ??? Because the entire offense depends on it to make the play work. The same can be said on defense but in reverse. 



#18 Kingsfisher

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:51 AM

Our D-line has potential with Collins and Paea. Thornton has to improve but he never played the 1 tech in Philly so it takes time. T Craw is solid at 3 tech if he's healthy. Call me stupid but I have hopes for Tapper, Taco, Mayowa and Moore. I'm hoping they make Irving an after thought actually

Northern Cowboy, that kind of view is what our problem is. Your attitude is exactly what is the problem. Don't take this personal please. But you have the same view as management and it is WRONG. Collins, yes and a thankful yes. Paea, no, in hoping he will suddenly develop into this star, no. He has had his snaps and chances. he will get better but is only backup material for the real defensive line we need. Thornton was never a star, was a backup beat out in Philly. Look at the stat sheet the last 5 games in Philly in 2015. Now he is gone, dumped and we lost money, money thrown away for a player who was only a backup at best. I have hope for Tapper, Taco, Irving, if cheating was not his advantage, Ivey was a waste, Neal has potential. DLaw is inconsistent and needs to put together a full season. TCraw my favorite Cowboy is over rated and over paid for his production. He cannot find a spot because he is not great in any of them. Last year McClain beat out Thornton and we let him go and is making 2.25 mil. JCraw was another producer who is now making 1.25 mil. That should be enough said. Until the DLine is made a #1 priority, we will not succeed. 



#19 UK Matt

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:18 PM

I think Crawford's problem is that his shoulders can't stay healthy.......this is a problem for a DL.

 

Cutting Thornton is interesting but if your gonna do that it's hard to see why you didn't keep McClain.

 

Overall I think that DL is / has been a priority for the organisation but these days in the NFL it is for everyone and thus free agency is expensive and draft picks go very high.

 

I 100% am sure that Bosa was the pick ahead of Zeke (I saw the faces of Jones and Garret when his name was called at #3). But since that point you have to take what falls to you in today's NFL. Like any intelligent QB knows sometimes you have to patient. Forcing the issue can bring very negative results.

 

The search for good DLs continues. Competition for places in the rotation is strong and with the cutting of Thornton the management has shown that anyone that does not perform is not safe. I strongly suspect that the DL will surprise to the upside this year. I am much more concerned about the secondary. Scandrick aside, every player on the roster has question marks against them for me (Brown's being only his health). I am so glad that all that nonsense about Orlando being traded came to nothing because we are gonna need him this year.



#20 MistyAnn

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:57 PM

I think we should have kept Church, and glad we kept Scandrick, I'm glad we added Taco to the line, we should be good.


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