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#21 ryanaustinh

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 03:39 AM

Either they get a deal done with Martin this year or the let the excess roll over for the 2018 cap basically paying off Romo's deal and being free to operated like a team with a star QB on a rookie 4th round deal. 

  I forget the exact effect, but even when we did Frederick at this point it only cost a couple extra million in cap that first year and we put a planned restructure of $14 million into his guaranteed salary the following year, I don't know if we have to do that now, it will be interesting to see the structure on this one especially since Zack is the best guard in the game



#22 PC Principal

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 03:51 AM

I forget the exact effect, but even when we did Frederick at this point it only cost a couple extra million in cap that first year and we put a planned restructure of $14 million into his guaranteed salary the following year, I don't know if we have to do that now, it will be interesting to see the structure on this one especially since Zack is the best guard in the game


With the extra cap space I would front load his guaranteed money so by the time Dak and Zeke are due he would just be making a cap friendly salary with no dead money so he can be released or traded if we needed to. That's no shot at Zack that's just smart business. With more money coming in the years before our core guys are due I would get a lot of that guaranteed money paid to more players like Tyron, Travis, and Dez, or whoever else gets a long term deal in the next 2 years.we would still have money left over to chace any UFAs we want up to 3 per year.

#23 DasSchnitzel

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:26 PM

I still don't get it guys, I'm sorry.

Let's say they are allowed to pay a total of $100 per year to players. $90 is already accounted for in 2017. So if they spend $5 on a one year deal, then they have $95 on the books for 2017. For the sake of simplicity we'll say that all the other contracts remain the same, so in the summer of 2018 that $5 contract goes away, and they're back to $90 accounted for in 2018. So, it costs them nothing in the future to make a one year deal with the excess money they don't need in 2017. Someone mentioned needing to find a replacement midseason, but a guy available on week 8 is going to be dirt cheap.

I recognize that it is too late now for any meaningful impact, but why not grab a guy earlier in free agency who wants a "prove himself" deal or is typically a mercenary type of guy, and sign him for one year? They do this already with guys in the 1 to 3 million dollar range, but a pass-rusher-for-hire worth $6 million on a one year deal may have a real impact on production

#24 PC Principal

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:30 PM

I still don't get it guys, I'm sorry.
Let's say they are allowed to pay a total of $100 per year to players. $90 is already accounted for in 2017. So if they spend $5 on a one year deal, then they have $95 on the books for 2017. For the sake of simplicity we'll say that all the other contracts remain the same, so in the summer of 2018 that $5 contract goes away, and they're back to $90 accounted for in 2018. So, it costs them nothing in the future to make a one year deal with the excess money they don't need in 2017. Someone mentioned needing to find a replacement midseason, but a guy available on week 8 is going to be dirt cheap.
I recognize that it is too late now for any meaningful impact, but why not grab a guy earlier in free agency who wants a "prove himself" deal or is typically a mercenary type of guy, and sign him for one year? They do this already with guys in the 1 to 3 million dollar range, but a pass-rusher-for-hire worth $6 million on a one year deal may have a real impact on production


Don't worry its not the easiest thing to understand. Right now with what's on the books. We are more than 6mil under the cap for 2018. We have about 10 mil left on the 2017 cap that can be saved for 2018 cap space so that's 16mil in space. Expect the cap to go up by at least 5mil so that's 21mil in space. Now for dealing. Expect a deal to get done for Martin and that could lower his cap a few mil for 2018. There are also players thay can have their contracts restructured to free up much more money. Those players are Lee, Smith, Frederick, and Bryant. Cutting Crawford, Scandrick, and Carroll would also free up another 7mil or so.

If itw all too complicated to get then look at it this way. The cowboys can make whatever moves they want to for the next 4 years and not worry too much about the cap and losing players they want to keep.

#25 DanAn

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:11 PM

I still don't get it guys, I'm sorry.

Let's say they are allowed to pay a total of $100 per year to players. $90 is already accounted for in 2017. So if they spend $5 on a one year deal, then they have $95 on the books for 2017. For the sake of simplicity we'll say that all the other contracts remain the same, so in the summer of 2018 that $5 contract goes away, and they're back to $90 accounted for in 2018. So, it costs them nothing in the future to make a one year deal with the excess money they don't need in 2017. Someone mentioned needing to find a replacement midseason, but a guy available on week 8 is going to be dirt cheap.

I recognize that it is too late now for any meaningful impact, but why not grab a guy earlier in free agency who wants a "prove himself" deal or is typically a mercenary type of guy, and sign him for one year? They do this already with guys in the 1 to 3 million dollar range, but a pass-rusher-for-hire worth $6 million on a one year deal may have a real impact on production

 

The only bit you're not getting is that money is carried over from season to season. Essentially if we don't spend all our cap space this season, we get to spend it next season. There is a limit on how much that can be carried over as you have to spend a  certain amount in a five year period but it's a pretty huge amount. Teams can carry over something like 100m



#26 DasSchnitzel

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:38 PM

The only bit you're not getting is that money is carried over from season to season. Essentially if we don't spend all our cap space this season, we get to spend it next season. There is a limit on how much that can be carried over as you have to spend a certain amount in a five year period but it's a pretty huge amount. Teams can carry over something like 100m


So in my example where Dallas spends $90 of $100 for 2017, if we assume that the cap stays at $100 in 2018, how much cap space would the Cowboys have in 2018? Would their cap space roll over such that the team cap would actually be $110?

#27 DanAn

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:05 AM

So in my example where Dallas spends $90 of $100 for 2017, if we assume that the cap stays at $100 in 2018, how much cap space would the Cowboys have in 2018? Would their cap space roll over such that the team cap would actually be $110?

 

Yes, in 2018 they'd have $110



#28 DasSchnitzel

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:26 AM

Yes, in 2018 they'd have $110

Interesting. So then even though the contract isn't on the books in 2018, you're still reducing the 2018 cap space because whatever is spent this year won't be added on to the default cap number next year.

I've always wondered why teams have different cap limits, now that too makes sense.

Thanks guys!

#29 45yearCowboyFan

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 05:54 PM

"Dallas needs to build a dynasty not sign one year vets that are washed up hoping “to try  to catch lightning in a bottle”.

 

Exactly.  Just look at the free agents Dallas has signed in recent years.  Name 1 that has proven to be a big impact player.

 

We got Hardy, supposedly a big sack artist.  What did he do when he played?  Not much.

 

We got Pac Man, supposedly a great return guy.  How many tds and long returns did he get while here?  None.

 

Got Roy Williams, supposedly a top wide receiver.  How many games did he win for Dallas, and did he get us to the SB?  Few and no.

 

Even look at the Patriots, they got Randy Moss, and yes they went 18-0 but lost the SB.  He got records and stats, but was gone soon afterward.

 

Once a guy has played long enough to demand the high dollar contract, he's likely getting too old to stay around long, and most won't sign a one year deal if they are a really top player.

 

Draft is your best shot for long term success...



#30 45yearCowboyFan

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 05:58 PM

"Yes, in 2018 they'd have $110"

 

If the cap is $100, that's all you have, the cap is the cap, you can't have a cap higher than the limit.



#31 ryanaustinh

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Posted Yesterday, 03:15 AM

"Yes, in 2018 they'd have $110"

 

If the cap is $100, that's all you have, the cap is the cap, you can't have a cap higher than the limit.

The new CBA allows for a carryover of unused cap space.  However you want to account for it, you can add it to the cap limit or you can subtract it from the salaries, whatever accounting measure you choose to use, the bottom line is you can "save" or carry over space.



#32 DanAn

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Posted Yesterday, 05:15 AM

"Yes, in 2018 they'd have $110"

 

If the cap is $100, that's all you have, the cap is the cap, you can't have a cap higher than the limit.

 

2017 NFL Cap Limit: 167m

Cleveland Brown's Project Salary Cap: 217m

Dallas Cowboys Projected Salary Cap: 169m

 

The difference relating to carry over as Ryan mentioned.

 

 

On a side note with 11m in cap space, I'm intrigued with signing Kenny Vacarro. I think we are missing Barry Church badly and I see Vacarro as a similarly skilled strong safety.



#33 QuincyCarterEra

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Posted Yesterday, 04:41 PM

2017 NFL Cap Limit: 167m
Cleveland Brown's Project Salary Cap: 217m
Dallas Cowboys Projected Salary Cap: 169m

The difference relating to carry over as Ryan mentioned.


On a side note with 11m in cap space, I'm intrigued with signing Kenny Vacarro. I think we are missing Barry Church badly and I see Vacarro as a similarly skilled strong safety.

I am too.

Saints are awful at developing their players, same as the Browns. It's not always the case that they drafted awful players, they've drafted players that either.
1. They didn't coach up right
2. Played them out of scheme
3. We're not good players.

Vacarro was outstanding his rookie season and looked to be what they though they had in Jarius. Then they moved him from his spit and we've seen a negative trend. That's on the organization not Vacarro.
We'd have to trade for Vacaro, not sign him which is fine. He still has a minimal cap hit on his rookie contract. With how much depth the cowboys have and the amount of comp pick we will get next season it's very likely that our 5th-7th round picks will have a hard time making the roster. I'd rather use those picks to move up in the draft or to grab other established players.

Same goes for Stephone Anthony, he was a top of the 2nd round talent drafted in the first. He has now found a new home in Miami, and will likely out produce his 5th round pick price tag that Miami had to give up.

#34 ryanaustinh

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Posted Yesterday, 04:59 PM

I am too.

Saints are awful at developing their players, same as the Browns. It's not always the case that they drafted awful players, they've drafted players that either.
1. They didn't coach up right
2. Played them out of scheme
3. We're not good players.

Vacarro was outstanding his rookie season and looked to be what they though they had in Jarius. Then they moved him from his spit and we've seen a negative trend. That's on the organization not Vacarro.
We'd have to trade for Vacaro, not sign him which is fine. He still has a minimal cap hit on his rookie contract. With how much depth the cowboys have and the amount of comp pick we will get next season it's very likely that our 5th-7th round picks will have a hard time making the roster. I'd rather use those picks to move up in the draft or to grab other established players.

Same goes for Stephone Anthony, he was a top of the 2nd round talent drafted in the first. He has now found a new home in Miami, and will likely out produce his 5th round pick price tag that Miami had to give up.

The Saints like us have changed defensive coordinators while keeping the HC and the Browns have just made whole sale changes every 2-3 years. 

 

You bring in a new guy with a whole new philosophy, they may not like a Maliek Collins or Charles Tapper and now that great draft class looks mediocre when you start yanking players out of it.

 

There should be really talented players that can transend scheme and "fit" if they are good enough, these two players are not and maybe they won't work in our scheme either






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